Thoughts on the Roger Ver/Tucker Carlson interview
First, let me be clear, I've had a somewhat combative history with Roger [1], but the man does not deserve to be in prison. The US Government's contention that a non-citizen can be guilty of tax evasion is just laughable on its face.
That said, there are a whole lot of lies and half-truths in that interview. First, Roger still seems to be giving himself credit for Bitcoin's early success. Yes, he promoted it a lot on different platforms, and indeed he was known as "Bitcoin Jesus" for a bit for his almost incessant proselytizing. But he wasn't the reason for Bitcoin's success and it was this belief that led him to say "I made Bitcoin what it is today and I'll do the same with Bitcoin Cash." Years of languishing BCH price (literally the same price as it was 2017 and that's not taking inflation into account) hasn't humbled the guy one bit.
He also shilled a lot of different altcoins, mostly focused around privacy. One of his goals on the show seems to have been to pump his bags and for him, it's probably not very different than his early Bitcoin advocacy. He's still a classic altcoin promoter and despite his utter lack of success the last 7 years, he continues down this path.
But the most egregious lie is this idea that his new book is the reason why everything is happening to him, implying that he has something so important to say that the US government must shut him down. The suggestion is that somehow Bitcoin was taken over by the US government and that they needed to suppress his book for the sake of government policy.
The lie wouldn't be so egregious if he sincerely believed it. But I don't think that's the case. Why? Because he still owns Bitcoin. The man is a salesman first, and his public pronouncements are almost always spin to get other people to buy what he's selling.
Personally, I don't think his arguments were compelling and he kept saying "cryptocurrency" which grated on my ears, but who knows how many people will be convinced by him? But then again, I always thought CSW was a fraud, but there were a surprising number of people that fell for his claims (including Ver, at least for a time).
Regardless, I don't think this presages some sort of Roger Ver comeback as he's been irrelevant for a long time. Yes, he may go to prison and become something like a celebrity cause, and he certainly has enough money to promote his suffering. And yea, he may get some fame from being something like political prisoner of the deep state. But it won't make his opinions any more palatable because they're demonstrably dumb.
[1]
First, let me be clear, I've had a somewhat combative history with Roger [1], but the man does not deserve to be in prison. The US Government's contention that a non-citizen can be guilty of tax evasion is just laughable on its face.
That said, there are a whole lot of lies and half-truths in that interview. First, Roger still seems to be giving himself credit for Bitcoin's early success. Yes, he promoted it a lot on different platforms, and indeed he was known as "Bitcoin Jesus" for a bit for his almost incessant proselytizing. But he wasn't the reason for Bitcoin's success and it was this belief that led him to say "I made Bitcoin what it is today and I'll do the same with Bitcoin Cash." Years of languishing BCH price (literally the same price as it was 2017 and that's not taking inflation into account) hasn't humbled the guy one bit.
He also shilled a lot of different altcoins, mostly focused around privacy. One of his goals on the show seems to have been to pump his bags and for him, it's probably not very different than his early Bitcoin advocacy. He's still a classic altcoin promoter and despite his utter lack of success the last 7 years, he continues down this path.
But the most egregious lie is this idea that his new book is the reason why everything is happening to him, implying that he has something so important to say that the US government must shut him down. The suggestion is that somehow Bitcoin was taken over by the US government and that they needed to suppress his book for the sake of government policy.
The lie wouldn't be so egregious if he sincerely believed it. But I don't think that's the case. Why? Because he still owns Bitcoin. The man is a salesman first, and his public pronouncements are almost always spin to get other people to buy what he's selling.
Personally, I don't think his arguments were compelling and he kept saying "cryptocurrency" which grated on my ears, but who knows how many people will be convinced by him? But then again, I always thought CSW was a fraud, but there were a surprising number of people that fell for his claims (including Ver, at least for a time).
Regardless, I don't think this presages some sort of Roger Ver comeback as he's been irrelevant for a long time. Yes, he may go to prison and become something like a celebrity cause, and he certainly has enough money to promote his suffering. And yea, he may get some fame from being something like political prisoner of the deep state. But it won't make his opinions any more palatable because they're demonstrably dumb.
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His book came out *after* this “all started happening to him”. He’s just an asshole who’s sad he lost and can’t accept it.
(Sure prison time of that long for tax evasion is probably not right either, but there are worse miscarriages of justice)
(Sure prison time of that long for tax evasion is probably not right either, but there are worse miscarriages of justice)
> The US Government's contention that a non-citizen can be guilty of tax evasion is just laughable on its face.
Exit tax is due when you renounce citizenship, at which point you're still a citizen.
There's also plenty of non-citizens who have to pay US taxes, e.g. everyone with shares in a pass through LLC. And if they commit fraud doing so, they can get charged with that.
He'll probably settle for a nominal fiat amount that's less than the value of Bitcoin he would have had to sell back in the day.
Meanwhile he gets some TV attention with, indeed, the absolute insane idea that his book need CIA suppression. And Tucker gets to make money promoting nonsense. Everyone wins? :-)
Exit tax is due when you renounce citizenship, at which point you're still a citizen.
There's also plenty of non-citizens who have to pay US taxes, e.g. everyone with shares in a pass through LLC. And if they commit fraud doing so, they can get charged with that.
He'll probably settle for a nominal fiat amount that's less than the value of Bitcoin he would have had to sell back in the day.
Meanwhile he gets some TV attention with, indeed, the absolute insane idea that his book need CIA suppression. And Tucker gets to make money promoting nonsense. Everyone wins? :-)
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I know this is 100% besides the point but I'll say it anyway:
Just owning a US LLC does not make you personally liable for taxes in the US. You do need to file an "informational" tax return for the LLC, but that doesn't mean having to pay taxes (just on its own, there might be other reasons that may mean you need to pay).
Just owning a US LLC does not make you personally liable for taxes in the US. You do need to file an "informational" tax return for the LLC, but that doesn't mean having to pay taxes (just on its own, there might be other reasons that may mean you need to pay).
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we lost a lot of good brain cells out there today, Sir 🫠
Tbh though I remember the Reddit censorship. It's clearly created a culture of anything but btc=evil even when custodial and discounting any possibility that people just want more features in their freedom tech. Bitcoin maxis tend to respond to those peolple with literal hate since then.
His portion of btc holding probably relates to his care for success.
I've danced the line on him though especially when he used to spout "bch is real Bitcoin" which is clearly confusing for newcomers. Clearly bad but I think his 💜 still in the right place.
His portion of btc holding probably relates to his care for success.
I've danced the line on him though especially when he used to spout "bch is real Bitcoin" which is clearly confusing for newcomers. Clearly bad but I think his 💜 still in the right place.
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I'm not referring to BCH. I'm referring to the religious gatekeeping behind what was able to be talked about. Bitcoin has a social and research layer and I think both r/Bitcoin and r/BTC but also other controlled forums created a non-productive divide.
I know there's no big list of bitcoiners that "moved to the dark side". If anything most BCH supporters at the time have moved to loving Bitcoin but these self custody freedom for everyone conversations still happen. I won't speak for others but many likely think nostr helps in that regard and would have then as well.
A lot of BCH rederick was dumb but Ver spent much of his time helping merchants transact with customers without Fiat. Mostly a pretty standard libertarian trying to help.
I know there's no big list of bitcoiners that "moved to the dark side". If anything most BCH supporters at the time have moved to loving Bitcoin but these self custody freedom for everyone conversations still happen. I won't speak for others but many likely think nostr helps in that regard and would have then as well.
A lot of BCH rederick was dumb but Ver spent much of his time helping merchants transact with customers without Fiat. Mostly a pretty standard libertarian trying to help.
Can you find me a single person who was running a node at the time who will say now, "man if I had just read one more reddit thread I would have picked up Roger's BCH code as BTC"? One?
I was there, I didn't run the code, reddit had NOTHING to do with my decision.
I mean this is an idiotic angle for anyone to take, BCH lost cuz one sub reddit kicked Ver and his bitch brigade out? That exact stupidity is why I wrote this guy and his coin off back the, and at the time I was open to other shit coins.
He is a liar and a grifter, he doesn't deserve prison but he also doesn't deserve any quarter from the Bitcoin community.
I was there, I didn't run the code, reddit had NOTHING to do with my decision.
I mean this is an idiotic angle for anyone to take, BCH lost cuz one sub reddit kicked Ver and his bitch brigade out? That exact stupidity is why I wrote this guy and his coin off back the, and at the time I was open to other shit coins.
He is a liar and a grifter, he doesn't deserve prison but he also doesn't deserve any quarter from the Bitcoin community.
Anybody that can’t humble himself is a cuck in my book.
It was good to hear from him. I thought it was tucker saying “crypto” mostly and that he wasn’t to bad in the interview. At the end of the day I think he just didn’t agree on how to deal with the pace of bitcoin adoption at the time and it’s not unforgivable… USA deep state however are out of control tiranical and we can’t keep feeding the beast.
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Hopefully forgivable 😁I bought altcoins hoping for a decentralised social network before nostr existed. I was let down multiple times before I realized blockchain itself just doesn't solve that.
I recently discovered Aqua wallet which probably the first wallet I could recommend my mom. Though liquid is as centralized as many alt chains... Still though Bitcoin will be 1 and only but probably after easyness with privacy spreads to all users/most wallets. Till then people will want more and are impatient to wait for Bitcoin.
I recently discovered Aqua wallet which probably the first wallet I could recommend my mom. Though liquid is as centralized as many alt chains... Still though Bitcoin will be 1 and only but probably after easyness with privacy spreads to all users/most wallets. Till then people will want more and are impatient to wait for Bitcoin.
When you say altcoins, you mean Monero, right?
He may be a sales man first. But Monero is anything other than a shitcoin.
He may be a sales man first. But Monero is anything other than a shitcoin.
Thanks for the angle. Ver predates my knowledge of bitcoin so its nice to have your perspective.
🧡👊🏻🍻
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Thanks for the summary so I don’t have to pain my way through it. Agree with you about hypocrisy since he stills owns bitcoin. He’s a self promoter salesman as you stated. Saying whatever he needs to say to benefit himself.
Bitcoins "Layered Approach" to speed and privacy need way more marketing attention. The block wars were won by the small blockers because we made the argument clear but its vision seems to have been somewhat faded in the price runup to $100k.
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It is hard to fight outright lies from idiots to other idiots. I hear ever day that "Lightning doesn't work" in spite of receiving an average of well over 100 transactions a day.
Lots of 🐂 💩 FUD too about "hubs" and "banks" and "kyc", mostly by shitcoiners that don't even run a node for their shit coin of choice that is "gonna change the world man".
I free pretty certain we are going to get a purchase amount that is non taxable per event in the coming administration, that will do a LOT of good to help things. …
Lots of 🐂 💩 FUD too about "hubs" and "banks" and "kyc", mostly by shitcoiners that don't even run a node for their shit coin of choice that is "gonna change the world man".
I free pretty certain we are going to get a purchase amount that is non taxable per event in the coming administration, that will do a LOT of good to help things. …
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Couldn't agree more. Now add coinjoins to the situation, and your problem grows by another factor.
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Layered approach for privacy is just fancy word salad for opt-in privacy which is known to not work at all and even endanger people through wrong assumptions.
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Most humans in the future will not own on-chain UTXOs. It will be layers on top that service the billions of people in the future who will own Bitcoin. Something like CTV can allow them to share their UTXOs collaboratively so they can access lightning channels. For them it will be private by default because their entry was via post Bolt12 Lightning.
